What can't be helped is this pathetically poor writing that turns random faction leaders into villains. And I'm not to blame for your denial of the writers' poor skills. Where is my evidence? Me evidence is the lack thereof on the side of whoever is the pathetic excuse for a writer who wrote this bull crap. I repeat, you don't get to change established characters like Garrosh and all the more so Sylvanas into devoid of all agency villains just because you want to do so and have bl*zzard logo on your badge. Not how it works. What I have seen of her ingame after Arthas' death is exactly the piss poor excuse for writing that I am talking about here. So no, we don't just "agree to disagree", because you are willing to accept as lore and canon whatever comes out of some college graduate excuse for a writer's rear if it has bl*zzard logo on it. And I do not.It's very touching how after all these years of pathetic story-telling from them you still have hope that this leads to some great reveal, but the harsh reality is that it's either not going anywhere at all, or goes down the crap hole. You don't need leaks and inside information to know that, you just need to look at all their recent actions and the direction they took with story and game mechanics alike, as well as with other certain "games" that are not to be named.Buy this all you want, but don't pretend that people who don't are just deluded or didn't understand something.
I agree with Winterfail. He/she provides a lot of good points to show how Sylvanas' development went down an evil path along time ago, while you, Nachtfrost, still have not provided any evidence to the contrary but spew "bad writing" at us again and again.I also don't quite like what Sylvanas has become, but the character development has been decided and told to us over the years as such, like it or not. It's writing you clearly don't like, but it doesn't make it bad. This "sudden turnaround" for her character you imagine to see is simply not there, and if you chose to continue dismissing all the many decisions Sylvanas made that plainly show that, then fine.If you really want to continue this discussion, maybe you'll finally start to offer any real arguments? Saying "bad writing" like a mantra again and again is not proving your point.BfA did in fact have its share of "bad writing", in my opinion. I was very much unconvinced by the non-reaction of Horde leaders like Lor'themar or Baine after Teldrassil, for example. That rebellion of Saurfang should have started way sooner. Sylvanas' character though, that's one of the things consistent with history, even if all the many little things pointing to that never seemed important in the past expansions. I guess most of us dismissed Sylvanas' actions back then, shrugged and turned to the bigger threats like the Lich King, Deathwing, Garrosh, the Burning Legion. But if you look back now, it's all there, plain in the sun for everyone to see.
@WinterfailI just love it how you say that she's not a "random faction leader who turned into a villain" and then proceed with a whole paragraph of examples how bad writing turned her into exactly that.@ToraziyalI have already said that my argument is the absence thereof from the pathetic excuses for writers that were responsible for what her character was turned into post-WotLK.
@Nachtfrost: Yes, you already said that. More than once. Thing is, that's not an argument, that's an opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to, of course.Just don't expect to convince people without any arguments to support it.Like it or not, the development of this character after WotLK has been consistently(!) driven forward exactly the way it played out now, and while we might regret that, it is consistent and plausible. That's why it is not bad writing.I would have liked Sylvanas very much to "step out of the shadow", als Vol'jin asked her to, but sadly she did not do that. I really had hoped at the beginning of Legion, that the responsibility for the Horde as a whole would make her rethink her priorities. That would have been possible - and plausible, as well. Is that what you had hoped for as well? If so, I feel the same.If not, how would you have liked to see her character develop after her 2nd death?
@WinterfailTurning her villain is random unless you think fear of death is a good enough motivation for it. Just stick literally any name instead of hers into your post and maybe then you will finally realize how absolutely pathetic the writing has been. And no, the fact that this lasted long enough does not justify the absence of quality.@ToraziyalIt's neither an argument, not an opinion. It's a fact evident from how her character has been consistently(!) ruined after WotLK, when instead of the character's agency it has become propelled by the desires of the pathetic excuse for a writer that is responsible for this circus. This is precisely what bad writing is: first coming up with an ending and then reducing the characters to the shells of their former selves in order to drag them along the story to the aforementioned ending by any means necessary, even if it goes against what said characters have been since the day of their inception.I would have liked a better story for the last 9-13 years. Without random but somehow predominantly Horde characters turned villains and forced as raid bosses or exiles. How about for the next 4 years we see Anduin motivated by the trauma of losing his father becoming an exile priest and giving the throne to, say, Genn, Velen or Tyrande, who in turn motivated by their fear of death becomes an Old God worshiping warmongering freak, culminating in them becoming the final boss in a Siege of Stormwind raid? Yeah about as much ridiculous as the recent Garrosh and Sylvanas story-lines, yet somehow almost guaranteed not to happen.
@WinterfailOh really? Let's see. Hmm..."Just think of all the atrocities that Jaina has committed against her own folk. It was bound to catch up with her at some point, as she has been given a much longer leash than anyone else in the story so far. The only thing that feels "random" about her in BfA is the fact that she still had the support of the other Alliance leaders after she committed genocide against the Sunreavers".Oh boy, what do we have here? Next expansion story, no less.And no, Activision Blizzard is not allowed to ruin Blizzard canon.Have a nice day.
And for the love of god, if you commit to the yet another "betrayal of the Forsaken" trope, then where on earth is the continuation of the 15 years in pending story with the Compendium of the Fallen? It's a Chekhov's gun that is apparently not destined to fire, ever. If Putress and WotLK was not the time good enough to bring it up, then BfA absolutely was.But no, the interconnectedness of the plot lines is not a thing anymore, we would much rather just come up with some faint imaginary reason for yet another Horde warchief to go bonkers, right? Right?
Hey Nachtfrostt!Actually an argument, except you and I were both referring to my previous post! And you changed more than just the name!I'm not much of a Jaina worshiper myself, but her sudden dip into madness and hatred does not seem random to me at all. I could go on a long tirade about what preceded the tragedy and outline how it's odd to equate the burning of thousands of civilians in their home and the defilement of their lands to giving a much smaller group of people a choice between incarceration or death, but yes, Jaina did a bad. Not a genocide, but a bad.Now, why would she have the support of other Alliance leaders in BfA despite her little bout of lunacy?It's simple: The Horde began a war of extermination so the Alliance needed every single solitary advantage they could get.There are still weird things about Jaina I actively despise. For instance, how she hated the Horde enough to abandon the fight against the Burning Legion because the Kirin Tor invited them back in and then disappeared for the entire expansion (from what we see represented in the game, at least), but I don't think it's fair to say "the writing sucks" when you're ignoring any nuance to character story.There will always be bits and pieces about character motivations that sometimes seem strange, and while I can, despite your insistence on the contrary, easily agree that some of it is bad writing - that doesn't make it random. We can, and do, cry bad writing about the things we don't like, it's part of being a fan, but willful ignorance and denial doesn't help anyone. Sylvanas' dip into villainy has been foreshadowed for a long, long time.(And I am desperately hoping that we eventually get to kick her posterior for good.)
"Also, Nathanos after many years now admits his feelings to Sylvanas. Will this backfire on him?"You have got to be kidding me. The cinematic for the Horde version of the Battle for Lordaeron had her lovingly touch him and call him "my champion," so no, this is not a new thing between them. They were supposedly lovers when alive. I think she knows.The key here is that she is no longer Horde so they are no longer required to hide it.Even the game practically tells you when Gallywix calls Nathanos the "Banshee Prince."
Sylvanas and Jaina would make a good couple :)
So if you chose siding with her and actually doing this senario/scene...does that mean you're no longer part of the Horde too? Seeing she's now a enemy and it looks like you're still a follower.
You are all nothing, same as you werent prepared for the truth. For the ones that wish banshee killed : This is more like illidan, everyones hated hero killing it blindly. And yet you will do same mistake again, just to come in next expansions to be wrong again. Just think this : What would our banshee do if the old gods are rulers in Azeroth. They will raise all the fallen and alive to be their puppets in some god's war or revenges. She wont have anyone to raise it as forsaken, or she will be again corrupted and puppet herself. So if she thinks Death is only way to go, she will take it, same as Illidan took his power from Sargeras.Also you all forgot about Vol'jin. As we seen from the scenarios, probably Death whispered to him for whom to be warchief, and some more powerfull then Death touch his spirit, and now he is in the shadows to hunt enemies. I just hope in the next expansion if its the leaked one, we will have him back as our guide there and we will finally get that nasty shadow hunters as race/class.CheersEDIT :) The Vol'jin part and clearly opening of the next expansions reminds me of Supernatural, more of Darkness season. First we need to release the darkness so God can show up. Probably blizz endgame, we need to learn about Death so we can learn about the one who is more powerfull or equal to him.
I just want to say - FU Blizzard for not making choose sides clear. I just followed a questline and couldn't reset it to choose Sylvanas side. And I was playing Saurfangs side and having 0 - TOTAL ZERO fun of it. Thanks for ruining my fun of the game.
How could you not be aware of your choice? There was literally a massive popup window that said:WARNING: This choice will prevent you from completing the main Fate of Saurfang quests, and will grant you an alternative quest instead.You will not be able to obtain the Worn Cloak toy, but other rewards will be otainable.Zekhan will remember this, are you sure?...like, right in the middle of the screen.